[IaWA - OOG] Tales of False Fortunes

edited October 2007 in Out-Of-Game
It's not the most spectacular layout, but it'll work: game wiki.

Do check your character sheets - I might have mis-transcribed something. I scrounged together some images off my hard drive and from a few internet searches. If you don't like yours ... it's a wiki. Remove or replace as you see fit. And add stuff to the Game Notes, too, if there's something you want handy.

I added a devil, after all. The non-PC ghosts remain a mastery, unattached until someone does something to grab it. Does anyone have a particular problem with there being only one devil? I could add a mastery for the devils (attached to the Eater), or I could combine the ghosts and devils into a single mastery (also attached to the Eater), but I think it would work most elegantly to just have the one devil 'meeting the ghosts by night'.

I went with the default: the GM characters have only one extra endeavor, which is basically "Being a [insert role here]". If you like (if you want a better idea of what each character can do), I could break that into a set of endeavors, as with PCs.
• A fallen-in mansion, where by night ghosts and devils meet.
• A fur-trapper, simple but good-natured, and his daughter.
• A conjurer who needs blood to entice his uncouth spirits.
• An innkeeper who murders and robs his wealthy guests.
Anyway, since the characters are set up, it's time to declare intentions. Starting simply (I might certainly modify to suit your intentions), this is what I have.

Ilsa's husband died a while back, and she was unable to keep up her farm on her own. She converted their home into a way house, but this isn't a busy road, so she was still having trouble feeding her kids. The first time she killed a traveler, it was in desperation during a particularly bad winter. She's done it several times since, though, and she now accepts it as a necessity, horrific as that might be.

The ghosts gather in the old mansion because that's where she kills her victims (tricking them out there, or drugging them and taking them there) ... she doesn't want to risk her children coming across her while she's doing the deed. She is unaware of the ghosts' presence.

• Protect her children and see to their futures.
• Protect her secret.

The Eater of Shadows has been around for a while, preying on human weakness and consorting with witches. He was drawn to the area by Ilsa's murders, and he has been tormenting and feeding upon the ghosts ever since. He isn't a terribly subtle devil, but he has gotten the idea that, with care, he might be able to multiply his fortunes by nurturing these evils ... he feeds on blacknesses in human souls (living and dead), and this feeding makes him more powerful.

• Goad Ilsa to greater vices, protecting her in the meantime, and keeping her desperate.
• Bend the ghosts to his will.
• Once aware of Andreas, either tame or destroy the conjurer.
• Bring others under his influence (likely encompassing the trapper and his daughter).

Bergen, I'm less sure about. I believe I'll want to see what's up with the daughter before I say anything there.


  • Wanda’s interests…

    She wants Andreas to summon demons for her. So she can skin them (does a skinned demon necessarily die?)
    She wants demon skins to prove to Bergen, her father, that his simple good nature is foolish and he should expand his skills to demon skin.
    She wants the Eater of Shadow’s pelt because she saw him one night consorting with witches and she just knows it will have a beauty beyond measure.
  • (since PCs are supposed to be at odds, how about I was hanging around inn because I was getting interested in Wanda, lured out to mansion by Ilsa telling me Wanda wanted to meet me, I leave it to rugrsi what Wanda really feels but I died thinking Wanda was part of my undoing and so have it in for her, I'm also from a family that supports church and opposes dark arts etc. and will be out to get anyone involved in that, meaning Andreas - that enough to put us at odds?)

    Sigismund's interests:

    - Vengeance on my killers ~ Ilsa and Wanda (or so I think). If I "drag on" and don't get resolution I'll get increasingly irrational as a ghost and probably want vengeance on all both hold dear too (e.g., her children and her father respectively). Wanda last since I'm most angry at her "betrayal".
    - Realizing Wanda didn't help kill me. (This is a "Author/Director stance" interest - my character doesn't know this is his interest and can't consciously further it - if I kill her before realizing this I am tragically doomed to never rest - I see this as probably a "negotiated alternative" outcome in a conflict etc. - Eater of Shadows definitely doesn't want me to realize this truth as it wants me doomed and thus always available for snacking).
    - Destruction of anyone who practices the dark arts in my presence (I'm a ghost but I'm still a pillar of the faithful community).

    These are more "conditional":

    - Protection of any of my kin who come by looking for me.
    - If anyone shows an interest in Wanda, I have a jealous rage interest in driving them off unless I somehow identify with them.
    - If Wanda shows an interest in anyone, I have a jealous rage interest in driving them off unless I somehow identify with them.
  • edited October 2007
    Andreas' Intentions:

    - Find the suitable blood necessary to work his magics
    - Bind the spirits haunting the area to aid him against the devil
    - Find the devil (Eater of Shadow) who is said to inhabit the area and force (or make a deal to that extent) him to return his sister's soul.
  • Does Andreas know what kind of blood he needs? Also, as a check, does he travel as 'a conjurer', or is he incognito? I don't think he'd be aware of the ghosts, in the beginning ... or would he?

    Valvorik, you've sort of scripted out some of Sigismund's major attitude changes ... it's fine to do that as a 'what if?', but do remember that that kind of thing is heavily influenced by play. His frame of mind could get turned around 180º by, say, Ilsa winning a conflict over 'convince the ghosts to forgive me.' I'm bringing it up as a general point, so that nobody starts the game with too many preconceptions.

    Looking at it, starting from the bottom:

    Andreas is going after the devil, using the ghosts (Sigismund included) as a means to that end. He needs blood ... human blood? animal blood? the blood of an innocent? the blood of a murderer (murderess)? menstrual blood? the blood of a devil? Whichever it is, that probably indicates another connection.

    • Ilsa wants to get money/security out of him, possibly by murdering him.
    • The Eater of Shadows doesn't want to give up Andreas' sister's soul, or be bound, or be destroyed. However, he'd be interested in the lengths to which Andreas is willing to go, and feeding off of resulting evils.
    • Wanda wants the skin of the Eater, and - if she knows Andreas is a conjurer - she would want to use Andreas as a means to that end.
    • Between the infernal activity and the 'making love' endeavor, Bergen wants to keep Andreas away from Wanda.
    • So does Sigismund. Sigismund also wants to kill Andreas on general principle. And Andreas wants to bind the ghosts.

    Andreas is fairly well connected. We should settle on how the blood will be initially handled, though.

    Sigismund wants his revenge on Ilsa and (mistakenly) Wanda. Fairly straight forward.

    • He wants to punish/kill Ilsa. Ilsa doesn't know he exists, but would have one reaction or another upon discovering that to be the case.
    • The Eater of Shadows finds him entertaining. In any case, the Eater wants to master the ghosts as a whole, including Sigismund.
    • Wanda may or may not care about in him (either in the creepy unnatural love way or in the 'I used to like that guy, before he disappeared' way). He wants to punish her, and he wants to keep other (living) men away from her.
    • Bergen ... doesn't know or care about him, at first. That probably changes as Wanda gets involved.
    • Andreas wants to bind him and the other ghosts.

    Reasonably well connected ... part of that is just by virtue of being 'a ghost', but it'll work.

    Wanda wants the skin of the Eater of Shadows so that she can confront her father with it in a typical act of teenage rebellion (except with the skin of a devil, which is less typical). If she finds out about Andreas, she'll want to use Andreas as a means to this.

    • No real connection to Ilsa.
    • Wants to skin the Eater. He might object to this, but then he's a devil ... maybe he gets his rocks off on being skinned alive. In any case, Andreas' involvement in this idea isn't something he'd be happy with. The Eater sees Wanda as corruptible.
    • Bergen wants to keep her from doing anything stupid (like dealing with a devil), keep her away from questionable men, get her to settle down, and keep her alive.
    • She may or might not care about/remember Sigismund. Either way, he wants to punish her for something she didn't do.
    • If Andreas is revealed as a conjurer, she wants to use him. Until then ... there might not be anything here.

    The connections of the GM characters are less important, but a few things:

    • Again, the Eater has an interest in protecting Ilsa and causing her to do evil.
    • Bergen might be thinking Ilsa is a fine-looking, hard-working woman and that it would do Wanda good to have a new mother and a couple of younger siblings.
    • The Eater doesn't consider Bergen particularly corruptible, but might find it useful to destroy the man if he gets in the way.

    That's probably good enough, but if anyone wants to add something (just for how things are at the outset), this'd be the time.
  • I'm fine with what you've posted.
  • I'm good with all of that.

    I'm not 100% sure of the blood issue, perhaps any blood will do for magic, but the type of blood indicates the power of the magic. Animal blood is next to useless, human blood is his norm and devil's blood... well that'd be amazing. I figure he can go after whatever blood fits the dramatic need of the story.

    I'd think that Andreas isn't traveling as a conjurer, but as a wealthy aristocrat - he'd not be too shy about his relationship with the dark arts, but he wouldn't broadcast it either. I'd say that he's heard rumors of the ghosts, and from his studies and research he knows that there is a devil seen frequently in the area. Maybe he'll be asking about after the ghosts, perhaps with some of locals, like Wanda?

    I'd like to see some more concrete relationships with Sigismund, but maybe that will develop in play.
  • We're pretty well set - I'd still like to hear from rugsri, checking off on interactions list, but I don't envision any problems arising from that. So let's get started ...

    I do scene framing, both to keep the game moving and to ensure that characters in a conflict are on approximately equal tactical footing. I'm just going to go ahead and start this, but you should feel fine about requesting scenes from here out. Think about conflicts you want to get into - each scene will generally be based around one or two such.

    To start, let's get down to brass tacks. Andreas has recently arrived at the inn, and Sigismund has come to begin exacting his revenge. Initially, nobody is aware of Sigismund, though Garvey could narrate the opposite for Andreas (which might result in a conflict, if Valvorik disagrees).

    The Inn by the Side of the Road

    I imagine those 'more concrete relationships with Sigismund' will arise naturally from that scene.

    Does everyone basically understand how conflicts with more than two people work?

    When we hear from rugsri, I'll frame another scene in which Wanda, not yet aware of the conjurer in the neighborhood, works on getting herself a devil's skin. Maybe she's trying to track the Eater, or maybe she's going so far as to set up a trap. We'll see what rugsri says.
  • test:

  • Yeah, remember that you can't edit a post with dice in it. If you're like me, and you like to be able to go back and fix errors in your writing, keep the dice in their own posts.

    Also, a straight-up vote:

    Which method of assigning dice damage do you want to use?

    a) Dice damage goes to either the stat attached to Endure Duress or to the stat attached to Exert Self, chosen by the challenger. (as per current rules)

    b) Dice damage goes to the stat attached to the endeavor you used in the conflict.
  • edited October 2007
    It could be they are not alone indeed, as with my ability to pass unseen etc. I have entered.

    Should I propose here and if accepted then put into the game thread?

    I propose Sigismund (who seeks to both protect this traveler Andreas - haven't sniffed out dark arts on him yet - and at same time make him my instrument) terrifies this traveler with the thoughts that this "single woman" (how unnatural a thing, a woman without a man to protect her, in this foresaken place...) is a murderous fiend against which he must defend himself with lethal force. Probably a process of gradual influence that could take a day or more not something instantaneous. A Grace (influencing others) endeavour for me.

    If I win, in effect, I force a follow on conflict of Andreas trying to kill Ilsa while in a ghost-ridden daze (while I'll be cackling in her ears).

    I totally accept other scenes being inserted before/after any of that etc., yup GM's job is to frame scenes to be equitable to players while also pushing them into each other's way, Andreas may get something vs me at same.

    (multiple combats - joint actions, roll all dice but still take best, lose and both lose what you used? If I win it would be a joint Andreas + Sigismund vs Ilsa)

    Dice lost being stat used seems okay to me.
  • No, just narrate for your character in the IG thread. In bite-sized pieces, stopping whenever you do something that someone else would have the opportunity to interfere in.

    So, you could narrate a bit about Sigismund entering the building unseen, with some IC thoughts and actions. Garvey would be able to conflict with that if he wants to be able to perceive supernatural forces (makes sense). I could, too, technically, but I don't think Ilsa'd have much reason to do form a conflict with that.

    If Garvey doesn't conflict (either through an OOC post to that effect or IC posting that goes along with what you wrote), then you can move on to the planting thoughts in his head. Same if he conflicts with it and you win.

    Think of it like Polaris - say what you are doing in character, and someone can conflict with that if they care to. All negotiation should be in play, not OOC asides.
  • I'm groovy with the summary of Wanda.
  • I think what we'll do here is have a couple of threads ('The Inn by the Side of the Road' and 'The Schwarzwald'), and try to stick to those. Most of the scenes will be bound to a location, so all of the scenes in the inn can be in the inn's thread, with all of the scenes in the forest in the forest's thread.

    If it happens that another location is needed (the mansion, for instance), we might make another thread. We'll see if its necessary.

    Rugsri, I'm putting up the 'The Schwarzwald' thread (in a moment) for Wanda and the Eater. Basically, you can narrate whatever you want to do in regard to the Eater ... track him to his lair, discover his nightly visits to the mansion (to torment ghosts), capture him, harm him, or whatever. That'll determine what kind of conflict we're rolling, and - of course - whether or not I even contest your narration.

    So ... you're in the forest, so is the Eater ... go wherever you want with that.
  • Re The Inn by Side of Road, looks like there's conflict Sigismund and Andreas (yup expected one with command of the dark arts would not be easily susceptible).

    I think it would be that if we confirm conflict, we both roll whoever rolls high is Challenger and they declare their intent etc. I'm high it's about mental domination, Andreas high it's about what he declares? That way the fact I was narrating first doesn't really give me upper hand, dice equally likely to make it about what Andreas makes Challenge.

    Testing dice

  • We use same dice once we've chosen them at start - which does mean that the Endeavour I choose to roll would be both "what I Challenge with" and what "I answer with if Andreas Challenges" (e.g., I choose X to "attack", I end up having to narrate how I would use X to defend?). I admit that seems a bit odd to me if I have it right as when would you declare "Endure Duress" Endeavour hoping to be Challenging??
  • edited October 2007
    I actually see no conflict yet. Nothing has been narrated by Sigismund that I object to yet. No mental domination has really been narrated... I was reading it as more of a warning.

    Edit: Ok, I guess I see the conflict if you really want Sigismund to control Andreas. Is that what you are proposing? Or just that he be warned?
  • edited October 2007
    I stopped short of narrating domination/influence expecting that was the "conflict trigger", that is indeed what he is pressing, will add that now.

    Yes, controlled is my "big ask", might negotiate for other.
  • You should probably both state intent while rolling to determine challenger - one of those won't matter, but that's cool. It drops out a step, which is desirable, considering the slowness of playing by post.

    I don't know if this needs to be stated, but everything should be written narratively. When you declare intent, don't just say that Andreas is goaded to attack Ilsa ... write a description of that happening. Same thing if it goes into negotiation. Otherwise, we'll have large chunks of the game being fairly anemic, full of summarized description. And that's just dull.

    Also in case there's confusion: conflicts in this game can have perpendicular goals. Andreas' intent in the conflict doesn't have to have anything to do with Sigismund's.

    Always remember to be specific about what points of narrative you're contesting. Quote boxes might be appropriate - there shouldn't be any question of which parts of a post are accepted and which are contested. In fact, yeah, let's use that protocol. Identify what you are contesting with a boxed quote, and do not use a quote box for any other purpose. That should work well.

    I'm going to go ahead and form a conflict for the Eater against Wanda, too.

    Let's get everyone described - Andreas and Wanda haven't been, yet.
  • I admit that seems a bit odd to me if I have it right as when would you declare "Endure Duress" Endeavour hoping to be Challenging??
    I am sitting on the walls of my fortress with an army at my back. I could sally out and 'Defend Myself', or I could 'Endure Duress' and let my enemy beat his army against my walls. I have good Endure dice. I'll do that.

    You pick your dice according to what you are attempting to do, not how you're resisting the other guy. Do you know The Shadow of Yesterday? It's very similar to the simple conflicts in that system.

    Hey, Valvorik, I think the problem you're having is that you aren't being aggressive enough in how you phrase things. You still haven't given Garvey anything to make a conflict over. See what rugsri did in the other thread? Wanda is skinning the Eater of Shadows. Sigismund, on the other hand, is attempting to influence Andreas. Garvey can (and did) write something to the effect of "Ok - he tries and fails" without resorting to a conflict.

    You should say, right out, that your influence is causing Andreas to do 'this thing'. Make it something that can't be ignored. I saw this a lot in my couple of face-to-face sessions ... people are used to stating what they are trying to do, rolling to see if they succeed, and then narrating success. In this game, you offer a complete narrative that assumes success.
  • The words of influence Sigismund whispers in an effort to induce this traveler to act as his proxy ...
    That should be, really:
    The words of influence Sigismund whispers, inducing this traveler to act as his proxy ...
    Really push it. There's no need to shy away from describing what happens to another character.
  • edited October 2007
    Not a good start for Wanda. I stated my intention, then rolled. If Wanda rolls better, then that intention gets scrubbed in favor of whatever Wanda's intention is. Gotta beat a 9.
  • testing

    #dice (1d10 )
  • Well, gee. I kind of suspect that Andreas is going to be the challenger on this one.

    Ilsa is rolling with Andreas, unless Garvey pulls a really weird angle out of his sleeve. My bit of narration was to indicate that I'm not trying to influence Andreas' actions, particularly - I'm just opposing Sigismund. I'm assuming, for the moment, that Garvey does contest Sigismund's influence over Andreas.
  • So that is Ilsa's roll in the Inn thread?

    Ah so I get short end tactically because I was trying to put out information for others to riff off of and so spoke to Ilsa's fate in future conflict (not current one)? Okay, guess that's the way it goes when you're getting hang of a new system.
  • I suppose it is. But a conflict is always over whatever you're discussing - if you're discussing something in the future, then that's what it's about.
  • All cool, water under bridge, for future reference, a Challenge to induce Andreas to be willing to take specific action against Ilsa - not yet having taken it - and that didn't involve Ilsa would be like:

    Challenging, “Andreas realizes the threat this gypsy inn-keeper poses to him. He will be alert to any sign she means him harm [and will see such signs whether they are really there or not] and is so convinced of the justness and necessity of it that he is willing to take action."

    Rather than details of "will lure her away from the inn and try to strangle her to death, denouncing her as a murderess as he does so.”
  • That would help. In this particular circumstance, I might've still had an in - Andreas has been exposed to Ilsa for a while, at this point, so everything I posted would still be relevant. The specific rule at issue here is:
    When do we roll dice? When your character does something and I say "hold on there," and my character's capable of intervening in some way.
    It's debatable whether or not, I'd have been able to justify 'capable of intervening' if the conflict was only about getting Andreas riled up or not. If Ilsa hadn't been in prior contact with Andreas, then I clearly wouldn't be able to. When the conflict carries through into what he does to Ilsa, Sigismund is acting on Ilsa (through an intermediary), so it brings in:
    When do we roll dice? When your character goes to do something to mine that mind doesn't want done.
    It's an important thing for everyone to remember - the more you cover with a conflict, the more likely it is that other PCs will get involved. In some cases, that might be good (if they're likely to jump in on your side). In other cases, not so much.
  • edited October 2007
    I see, due to the broad nature of my statement, how "your character does something to mine that mine doesn't want done", applies.

    I'm less clear on "hold on there" and my character's capable of intevening,

    - For Ilsa to interevene under this point, this means the character does not have to know what is going on, just that they be capable of intervening, and they do not have to be framed into the scene as actively involved in order to intervene.

    Applied in this instance they can intervene by being thought of? So, looking ahead, Sigismund can intervene in a conflict Ilsa is having where I say "hold on there" because I see his interest harmed (e.g., she's trying to persuade someone she's innocent of any crimes) even if he does not know about it, by having Ilsa remember he was an innocent victim of her actions against him?

    Okay if so, but it seems more plausible to me that to intervene when one's interests are being harmed (the opening flush to the list), one should be present actively (effectively the rules are saying "your character is being harmed by what's going on, you can insist they be introduced into scene) - under this point she should have to come into the room and be interacting in a way that could counter etc. ~ (knowingly or not) - it is then more plausible to me to see how Ilsa would lose dice from stats on a loss, for example.
  • I did say it was arguable, and I likely would not have involved myself if that situation had been the case.

    However, your examples are muddled. In this case, the issue at hand is whether or not Andreas takes Ilsa to be so evil that he will murder her. So, it is highly relevant that his personal experience with her is to the contrary, and it's a straightforward application of Influence Others for Ilsa to fight that.

    Your other example, of Sigismund intervening in Ilsa attempting to convince others that she is an innocent, is quite different - it's irrelevant that Ilsa remembers her actions against him. She knows she's a murderer ... that doesn't affect that she's trying to convince someone else otherwise.

    I don't see that this particular issue needs much discussion, though, since it hasn't come up in play. When/If it does, we can look at the specific situation, rather than running off hypothetical situations.
  • edited October 2007
    rugsri: Don't forget to stick Wanda on at the top of the Owe list (on the wiki). You definitely don't want to miss out on that advantage die.
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